Talk:Video game

"Computer game" synonym for "video game"?

Is "computer game" really synonymous with "video game" as these two words are treated in this article? I ask because according to the first sentence in the lead section of the article "PC game", "computer game" is a synonym for this word.-- Maxeto0910 (talk) 19:50, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

As this article states "Computer game" may also be used to describe video games because all video games essentially require a computer processor, though the term typically is reserved for games played primarily on personal computers." - We're not saying that computer game is fully synonymous with "video game", just that it may be used in some cases. --Masem (t) 19:56, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

That statement is North American-centric; in other English-speaking parts of the world, "computer game" usually means any kind of video game. Popcornfud (talk) 20:19, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

However, do we have a source for that? I can sorta believe it in the countries where personal computing was more popular than consoles like UK/EU, but we would need a source to discuss that distinction --Masem (t) 23:55, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Masem, can sorta believe it I'm telling you, it's true! But yes, obviously we'll need a source to add it. It's kind of an annoying bias in the article I'd like to fix. Popcornfud (talk) 08:33, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

I found some sourcing that gives reason that "computer game" may be used interchangeably with "video game" in some places. --Masem (t) 16:00, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, I can provide plenty of examples of UK RSes using the terms interchangeably, but for this article we really need a RS explaining that the terms are used interchangeably. Popcornfud (talk) 16:33, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

The source I found is from a Wolf/Perron book , so that should be fine. --Masem (t) 16:47, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Ah, I didn't see you'd updated the article. Thanks for that. Popcornfud (talk) 17:49, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Lead Pong image

Taken to talk after consensus was requested. File:Pong (28684491143).jpg is an evocative photo, but an idiosyncratic one. Videogames are very rarely played on 10" high television sets with dinner plate sized controller wheels. I replaced it with File:American Truck Simulator at Gamescom 2015 (20429525295).jpg as being a photo of a game on a regular-sized screen, but this apparently might have copyright issues. What would be a better photo? Pong on a regular television set, such as File:Pong game on TV.jpg? --Lord Belbury (talk) 10:01, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

I agree that an image of Pong being played on a TV 10x the normal size of most TV's isn't a very good representation, however the issue with the image you uploaded is the depiction of American Truck Simulator, which is a copyrighted game made by SCS Software. The thing that confuses me is the image is licenses under CC-SA-2.0 (Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alive 2.0 Generic) so it should be fine to use? ― Blaze The Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 14:41, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Just because the Flickr user tagged it that doesn't mean the image is free of copyright, as that user cannot claim copyright on ATS software. That user released their photo as CC but the replication of the ATS screen is a derivative work, so it still has copyright ties to ATS. --Masem (t) 14:51, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Ah ok. That makes sense. I had a feeling that was the reason. The copyright on the image threw me off though. ― Blaze The Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 14:57, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Hi there, I know this the lead image was previously discussed (here) after it was changed to an image of freedoom and changed back to the Pong one. I somewhat understand your point as perhaps Pong image could an example of one for suited for Early history of video games/Early history of video games but at the same time it does demonstrate an iconic, well-known, established video game with players playing one (though I understand the controllers/setup are slightly unusual). I am not sure File:Pong game on TV.jpg is an improvement as it does not actually show any player(s) actually playing it. If the 'ideal image' was a player playing a 'regular game' on a 'regular setup' (like your suggested one at desk with a monitor, or alternatively on a sofa with a large television) it is difficult as the screenshot gameplay image are usually always copyrighted (except for those few games that freely licensed, like 0 A.D. (video game), which is how we are able to have an extended gameplay video on Let's Play). Regards  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 14:53, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:People_playing_video_games has a lot of photos with screens kind-of visible, but I don't know how many have actually been checked and considered de minimis. How about File:Universum TV Multispiel 2006.jpg, though? Pong on a sofa, from a different museum. --Lord Belbury (talk) 18:23, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

The problem is that almost any nominal concept of a video game today is going to have copyrighted screen elements. The Pong graphics are simple enough to not qualify, and while being played on an oversized screen is atypical, we're also showing pretty much the first commercial successful video game, and that it is a specialty museum display. I don't think there's any issue with it. --Masem (t) 14:54, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

I do agree that a more "typical" video game image would be a better lead image if it were possible to get round the copyright issues. Popcornfud (talk) 15:02, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Any objection to File:Universum TV Multispiel 2006.jpg? --Lord Belbury (talk) 12:19, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

With no objections raised, I've replaced the giant pong screen with this museum photo. --Lord Belbury (talk) 11:51, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

It may be worth thinking about finding an "ideal" photo of someone playing a regular game on a modern, regular setup, and just editing a different game onto the screen, one which doesn't contradict the setup being used. Should be a relatively easy photoshop job, putting a rectangle over another rectangle. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Indie_video_games has some games which have released screenshots for free use. --Lord Belbury (talk) 18:24, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Image (screenshot) of one of the earliest video games (Tennis for Two) in the lead section would be better than an image of two children playing a game. It would be similar with the articles of music and movie. Moreover, other languages version of this article have image (screenshot) of a video game in the lead section. AimanAbir18plus (talk) 12:57, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Citation Needed on AAA Gaming leading to lower creativity in Opening paragraphs

In the 4th paragraph, this sentence appears: "In the 2000s, the core industry centered on "AAA" games, leaving little room for riskier, experimental games." This is an opinion that should either be removed, or reworded and given citations as to who believes AAA gaming prevents riskier, experimental games. MisterDogHeart (talk) 10:28, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

It's sourced in intro of the "History" section. --Masem (t) 15:43, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

I believe both places need a rewording, then. Right now both in the history section and at the top, the claim is made as if it is an objective fact and not the opinion held by video game historians, breaking the neutral point of view guideline. MisterDogHeart (talk) 13:32, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 April 2022

Please remove the mention of chess from the lead; chess itself is not a computer game, and every computer-based iteration I’m aware of can’t be played without a video display. Maybe it’s referring to early text-based chess games?, but at best the claim needs clarification. 151.132.206.250 (talk) 19:34, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: Many early chess programs, dating back to the 50s, were text only. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:26, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Can that be clarified in the text rather than broadly referring to all chess games? Text adventures are by definition text-based; chess games are not. —151.132.206.250 (talk) 18:47, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. I think it's pretty clear that chess computer games are being discussed based on the prose. Computer games are not all video games—for example text adventure games, chess... It's clearly speaking of computer game versions of chess. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:54, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Then can we change it to read that they may not depend on a graphics display? Because the majority that are played today certainly do, despite our categorically saying they do not. —151.132.206.250 (talk) 16:47, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

 Done I made it, first, computer chess which covers hardware versions. And added a may in there tl be clear that a display may not always be required. --Masem (t) 16:56, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks! Clears up any possible confusion that we’re saying something unfactual. —151.132.206.250 (talk) 18:13, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

See also section

Does anyone have a problem with me adding Women and video games to the see also section? I know it says to add any related links to Outline of video games, and I have done so. However, women and video games seems like a very closely related page to this Wikipedia page and is not currently linked anywhere on the page. Who says we can have Lists of video games and List of accessories to video games by system linked in this see also section but no others? I understand there is probably a desire not to let the see also section become overloaded but I see no consensus for these two links or limiting the section to only these two, so I ask if we can please make an exception to also allow the inclusion of this one link. Helper201 (talk) 04:41, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

It's too specific of a link. That page is linked through video game culture though. --Masem (t) 03:46, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Terminology

The Terminology section claims that all video games require a computer, which I find misleading, since some early games such as Pong or (despite it's name) Computer Space did not use any kind of computer or processor. --217.149.173.6 (talk) 11:02, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

There was some type of fundamental computer circuit that meets the definition of a computing device. They may not be what today we think of as computers, but they would fit the definition of what computers were back then. --Masem (t) 12:27, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Research Process and Methodology - SU22 - Sect 202 - Tue

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Semi-protected edit request on 28 December 2022

Change the tense of 'involves' in "Video games,[a] also known as computer games, are electronic games that involves interaction" to 'involve' for subject-verb agreement. Andrewdimola (talk) 04:09, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

 Done Highway 89 (talk) 04:22, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 May 2023

change http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/220936/spacechem-used-as-educational-tool-in-schools/ to https://animeallstories.blogspot.com/2023/05/the-original.html Adarsh0209 (talk) 04:33, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: Archived source is infinitely better than a blog, which is not WP:RS Cannolis (talk) 05:13, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 26 January 2024

At the bottom this says its an American invention, but reading this and Early history of video games it seems like it could be an American or British or Canadian invention depending on what you call a video game or what you call an invention. It should be changed to say this instead of just saying its an American invention. 2A02:C7C:6424:5500:599E:DE08:3FED:1914 (talk) 14:11, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done removed the non defining category. M.Bitton (talk) 15:04, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Wow this is interesting — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.204.185.176 (talk) 23:18, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

"Computer and video game distinction" listed at Redirects for discussion

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Semi-protected edit request on 1 November 2024

id like to add something about the history of video games that hasn't been mention in this article 75.88.26.243 (talk) 19:56, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Not done for now: These requests are for just that, but you have to first explain what you what to add, accompanied by reliable sources. I'm closing this but when you're ready just open a new request. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 20:08, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

i dont know about that, it would be pretty borrrring 50.202.188.102 (talk) 14:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Lead image

Image (screenshot) of one of the earliest video games (Tennis for Two) in the lead section would be better than an image of two children playing a game. It would be similar with the articles of music and movie. Moreover, other languages version of this article have image (screenshot) of a video game in the lead section. AimanAbir18plus (talk) 12:57, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

While Tennis for Two is one of the first games, Pong is far more comparable to A Trip to the Moon, neither being the first of their media type but considered the work that laid the foundations for everything that followed. Pong is also far more recognizable than Tennis for Two. Masem (t) 13:01, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Also, with video games, we are burdened by copyright that most game images are still non-free and thus we can't use screenshots directly (but a picture of children playing a game is fine). Masem (t) 13:03, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

But screenshot of Tennis for Two is free and could be used. Otherwise the gameplay gif of Pong could be used. AimanAbir18plus (talk) 16:42, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

In fact, a gameplay GIF of "Pong" would be ideal for the lead section because it clearly demonstrates how the game is played. This is crucial for anyone wanting to understand the game's mechanics. AimanAbir18plus (talk) 16:45, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

An image of the Pong screen is not free, so that's not an option Masem (t) 16:48, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

That GIF is already in use in this article. AimanAbir18plus (talk) 17:00, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Masem. Masem I think it’s fair to compromise on allowing the use of the second image I tried to add. I did not remove the Pong image and I added an image showing a screen as requested (though I don't think that should be a requirement).

I think the lead should have an image showing adults gaming, given this is the primary video game market. Below I've listed a number of options for what we could place in the lead as well as retaining the Pong image.

• 
  A.
• 
  B.
• 
  C.
• 
  D.
• 
  E.

I'm sure we can find an image showing adults gaming to use in the lead. I'm open to suggestions if none of the above ones can be agreed upon; nevertheless, I think the use of any of these while maintaining the Pong image is a fair compromise. Helper201 (talk) 01:54, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

The main thing for the Pong image is that it is a clearly recognizable game, one of the defining ones of the entire genre. While one might argue that video games are aimed at adults, they are also aimed at children and across age groups, so it doesn't make sense it to try to force "adult playing video game" photo as the lede one. Masem (t) 02:48, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

Maybe you misunderstand, I'm not attempting to remove the Pong image. Yes, video games are aimed at adults, children and across age groups, but the lead image does not represent that whatsoever, it instead only represents the non-primary demographic. No one is trying to "force" anything here. You are the only person that has come out in opposition to this and I have tried on multiple occasions at a compromise, both by keeping the Pong image within the lead, choosing a different image after you disagreed with the first I tried and then also now listing multiple different options for alternatives. Helper201 (talk) 01:11, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

I think the assumption that adults are the primary demographic is not clear. While I would not be surprised to see that games that cater towards older audiences draw the most revenue, that doesn't equate to them being the most significant demographic.

And again, I still believe that for a thumbnail at the top of the page, the simplicity of the Pong screen is very readable, while the other offered images are not clear or lack a screen at all. Masem (t) 01:15, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

RFC: lead image

Which of the following should be the lead image? 01:14, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

• 
  Current lead image
• 
  A.
• 
  B.
• 
  C.
• 
  D.
• 
  E.
• 
  F.
• 
  G.
• 
  H.

• Yes, option A, B, C, G, or H. Adults are the primary market/demographic for video games. Using only one image showing children using a video game is therefore not representative for a lead image. I'm willing to compromise by keeping the Pong image in the lead since it does have historical significance. I've listed a variety of options for another primary image for the lead above listed A to E. If you agree with a lead image above that of the Pong image (while still also retaining the Pong image in the lead) or think that the Pong image should be replaced by a new image entirely then please also choose an A to E option or provide your own alternative. Helper201 (talk) 01:21, 21 February 2025 (UTC)
• F or C because they're both modern, and the images include both women and men playing video games unlike the current lead image and option E. Option A doesn't include an image of the video game itself, and B and D only have one person in their respective images, so I would oppose those options. Some1 (talk) 04:54, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
• Current Lead Image which you did not assign a letter for some reason. (A) does not show a game, (B) is a driving simulator which most games do not resemble, and the others all have copyrighted material in them. The current image is actually perfect because it succinctly demonstrates the game, the console, and the players without any other distractions in the image, Pong is an iconic video game that most readers will recognize, and its simple design makes it ineligible for copyright issues. TarkusAB^talk/contrib 06:00, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
• Current lead image per Tarkus, but I was pretty much going to say the exact same thing so that's not fair. Option A does not show a game. The left two people have some fun action faces, but the guy on the left is standing like a doofus. Option B does not reflect a typical gaming experience. The coloring is nice, though. Option C has copyright material all over it. The screen is very busy with a lot of motion. The two on the far left and right are wearing the headphones weird. Looks like an Ikea. No controllers are visible. Option D has copyright material all over it. The screen is a bit white blasted and busy. The guy is standing like I would at a kiosk: a big dork. Option E has copyright material all over it. The screens have bad glare. Controllers aren't visible. The far right guy's posture is impeccable, and so is the girl's (and her hair), but why the heck is she wearing a shirt with "Google" on it lol. The image is complex and all over the place. Option F has copyright material all over it. Weird action stills. Stupid looking off-centered boxes. Busy colors. I wonder what that guy in the back is interviewing that person about. Option G has copyright material all over it. There's no primary focus, which is cool for an image in general but not one where a subject matter is specified. It's pretty dark. Aged "red eye" glare. That dude needs a cap that fits his head better. I wonder what that guy in the back is interviewing that person about. Option H has copyright material all over it. The 2007 clothing is fun, and very immersive to the time, and also on brand with the pictures we pick on Wikipedia (shrug guy comes to mind). Weird floor geometry blocks the photo. Very busy.

But, Current image? I'd buy them a drink, if they'd even let me. The simplicity of the room and the color palette. The visible screen, console and controllers. And the two cutest little buttons I've ever seen playing it. Let me say that I don't understand why you think video games are an "adult" market. It's certainly a market for everyone. No copyright of any kind in this picture, not even the clothes. No distractions or false focus. Pong is not only a universal demonstration for both the concept of a video game but also a big root of its history. Panini! • 🥪 06:38, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

• Current lead image. That another picture might reflect current trends better is no reason, this is about the subject as a whole. Pong is quintessential, the local two-people-on-the-couch-multiplayer says more than some pictures taken at industry shows. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 07:19, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
• Current lead image. As per reasons given by Tarkus, Panini and Soetermans. "Updating" the image doesn't gain us anything, but it could cause us to lose a lot. Pong is one of the bedrocks of video game history and widely recognised by people outside of the subject - X201 (talk) 09:01, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
• Current lead image - A through H are all just... bad images. Busy, poorly-framed photos that don't do a good job showcasing the concept of video games. --PresN 12:45, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
• Current lead image. I struggle to see the point of changing the image. The current one is quite literally perfect. λ NegativeMP1 16:36, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
• Current lead image - I concur with Tarkus, Panini, Soetermans, X201, PresN, and NegativeMP1. Pong is without a doubt the most quintessential of the early video games and the image pretty much visualizes how the game plays. Roberth Martinez (talk) 17:55, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
• Current lead image - Like the editors above me have stated, Pong is probably the best game to demonstrate the subject matter being that its one of the first earliest video games, it's a universally understood game and it is timeless. I should also mention that it doesn't display any bias towards any one company or console as the original Atari are long since bankrupt. Not to mention, the whole environment in the image has a pretty timeless and well understood look to it. It's a lot harder to misconstrue. CaptainGalaxy 21:34, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
• Collage. I don't see why this has to be one and only one image. Also, it's 2025 and the general reader isn't associating "video games" with "Pong" as much as video gaming enthusiasts may wish so. A random person associates "video games" with Fortnite and Candy Crush. The appropriate images would be something like: console, PC, mobile and historical (Pong, sure, the image itself is really good). I don't think any of the other given examples here are any good though, so this isn't really a fair comparison. B is the only one I would even consider. A screenshot of Steam review bombing would represent "video game" better than these artificial console stands at a game show. —  HELLKNOWZ ∣ TALK 12:58, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

  the general reader isn't associating "video games" with "Pong" as much as video gaming enthusiasts may wish so. Exactly. I doubt the average reader even knows or cares about "Pong" (not to mention, the pong console in the current image no longer exists or is hard to find). To the average reader, "video game" = Fornite, Minecraft, Super Mario Bros, GTA, Call of Duty, etc. A collage is a great idea, and the RfC does not preclude discussions about replacing the single lead image with a collage; editors are currently discussing various image options in the section below. Some1 (talk) 23:47, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

• Current lead image. Agree with others that Pong's significance makes it great for inclusion. I'm a big fan of the current image and see no reason to change it. — ImaginesTigers (talk∙contribs) 18:27, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
• Current lead image. People usually play video games in their homes, without especially elaborate equipment. It is clear that the people in the current lead image are playing a video game, and an iconic one at that. It is not clear what the people in alternative A are doing. Alternative B depicts excessively elaborate equipment. The others mostly show trade shows, and the promotional logos shown in some of them seem gratuitous. Most people don't experience their video games at trade shows. In alternative G, other than the title of a specific game unnecessarily being displayed, the people look like they're just sitting around chatting with each other on couches in a dark room. I guess when you look closely at that one it's also a trade show of some sort – the guy who looks half asleep has a name badge on. Most people don't wear name badges when they play video games. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 00:46, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
• Current lead image - I won’t restate a bunch of the discussion above, which I do agree with, but can I also bring up a copyright concern? Other than A, which doesn’t show a game or a console and just a bunch of people holding controllers, in each case we have images of screens from said games, all of which would be protected by copyright. Yes, there’s one of Pong as well, but simplicity matters in the threshold of originality criterion - a much older and far simpler game on the screen is less likely to have a copyright issue than a newer one. Red Phoenix ^talk 10:54, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
• Current lead image - I see nothing wrong with it. The more I think about alternatives, the more I feel as though we'd stumble into something that would age poorly, or become questionably relevant before too long -- even just the controller. That's assuming we avoid games that would be confusing. Picking an early video game means picking something that has stood the test of time and will never stop being important. The fact that this is in a museum, too, gives it additional context that this is a historic video game that is still being played in the present. Shooterwalker (talk) 00:35, 2 March 2025 (UTC)
• Current lead image With the exception of B the primary focal point of all the new proposed images are people standing or sitting around playing a game on a screen. Pong has significant cultural connotations with the medium of the video game compared to the other titles. If there were to be a collage, it should demonstrate different modalities of play otherwise all you get is...different images of people standing around playing a game. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 06:15, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
• Collage option below The original image is dated but still relevant. And the other options don't succinctly represent all video games. The collage below in Helper's comment is a nice poo poo platter of video games. ;) pickalittletalkalittle^🐤🐤🐤talk a lot pick a little more 21:18, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Discussion

Far far too early to be starting an RFC, where you only had three editors above, as well as the fact that the lede image has been discussed in the past (see page archives). Masem (t) 12:59, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

I agree. Unnecessary RFC. ―Howard • 🌽³³ 18:46, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

The discussion wasn't getting any responses other than from Masem and they showed no signs of being willing to compromise or work a way forward despite me putting forward various suggestions, so unless I opened an RFC things seemed like they would remain at a standstill. Helper201 (talk) 00:09, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Came here from WP:RFC/All. Is the RfC asking if there should be another image in the lead (in addition to the current one)? I guess I've never seen a lead with multiple images before (besides ones with collages). Anyway, I've changed the lead image [1]. If you and other editors are okay with the new image, then this RfC can be closed. Some1 (talk) 02:02, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

That doesn't work either, because no video game is actually shown, just people with controllers in their hands. — Masem (t) 02:22, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

Okay, I've updated it with another image. Some1 (talk) 02:32, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

Again, from above, we have had previous discussions on this talk page about the current Pong image. You should not be changing it without getting a larger consensus first. Masem (t) 04:24, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

By "larger consensus", you mean an RfC right? So your "Far far too early to be starting an RFC" statement is off the mark, tbh. Some1 (talk) 04:43, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

I have no idea why there's a discussion about whether the image should be updated or not. The Pong image is more illustrative and universal, and is more easily understood to more people. Pong can be understood by all ages, but Fire Emblem Warriors cannot. Cukie Gherkin (talk) 06:30, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

Consensus can be reached without an RfC. In any case, Masem is right—the image shouldn't be changed without consensus, especially during an ongoing RfC. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 06:38, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

Collage ideas

• Big fat "but", though Some1 has proposed above that an additional image on top of the current one could be beneficial, which I think is a pretty good idea. The concept of a video game (this article encompasses both the idea, the hardware, and the industry) is very broad and comes in various forms; perhaps the lead image could be a collage of unique video game experiences, similar to the layout on American Civil War?

• The lead image stays the same, the largest, and what appears in previews
• Arcade cabinets, preferably lined up in an arcade
• A simulator; I really like image B for example
• Virtual reality?
• Portable/mobile gaming?

I'll start looking if we consider. Panini! • 🥪 01:32, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

Panini! my RFC originally was asking if we should include another image as well as the Pong image. Some1 requested if they could change my RFC and I agreed (not that in any way I'm saying that's a negative or placing any blame on them). I was originally thinking two images on top of each other but a collage or multi-image is even better. Perhaps like one you say for the American Civil War as you said or like one of the multi-images for Media portrayals of bisexuality.

Also as an aside, what’s the issue with copyrighted material being in a lead image if its passed the necessary requirements to be allowed on Wikimedia Commons? Helper201 (talk) 02:47, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

My bad, Helper201. The original RfC question[2] ("Should we introduce a second image into the lead representing adult gamers?" didn't mention collages, so I had (wrongly I guess) assumed that the RfC was asking about adding another image to the lead, such as in the third paragraph. In any case, the RfC above doesn't preclude discussions about replacing the single lead image with a collage, and I do think having a collage is a good idea. Some1 (talk) 23:54, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

@Helper201: They're different sites with different rules. Commons is considerably more flexible in what it allows. — ImaginesTigers (talk∙contribs) 18:29, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

ImaginesTigers can you please point to any specific guidelines that would reject the use of any of these images? Helper201 (talk) 19:09, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

@Helper201: You can read about that at Wikipedia:Non-free content—relevant here is likely WP:FREER and WP:NFC#CS. — ImaginesTigers (talk∙contribs) 20:41, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

Multi-image example option

Open to suggestions of other images and layouts. Also, yeah, I get that gaming is for everyone but that's kind of the point, the lead image only being two kids doesn't represent that. Also, I think we should be careful to avoid personal views about stuff like how people are standing, the size of someone’s cap etc when making such decisions as, with all due respect, that sort of thing isn't relevant. Helper201 (talk) 03:05, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

Experimenting and storing image picks I find at my sandbox. This isn't to say what I have here is ideal; this is just from a basic Commons search and I will dig through non-Commons stuff if and when it becomes necessary. Panini! • 🥪 07:17, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

Also, I was mostly joking on the ends of those little gripes about the people, but they really can make or break an image. Humans are just as much of the subject of an image as the item they are using is. So if a guy is standing like a klutz or his posture is whack, it simply makes an image worse. It's small details like those that makes an image great; proper lighting, clarity of the subject, use of color, all that. With people playing a 3DS, all that makes this image great, this image not as much, and this image not at all. Panini! • 🥪 18:19, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

If we can get a sixth image (maybe of someone using a motion controller), those images would span a lot of what could be taken as video games and give a clean 2x3 image array like at Indie game. I'd change out the racing game with something like DDR to show a more physical input system, if that were posdible Masem (t) 18:47, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

Do you mean a fifth image (there are 4 above) or are you including one of Panini!'s images as the fifth? As for a sixth motion controlled image, here are some options:

• 
  1.
• 
  2.
• 
  3.

I can easily crop option 1 to get rid of the empty space to the left of the person and the console if we decide to go for that. Helper201 (talk) 19:25, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

Now I see the five image collage at psnini's sandbox, it was showing just as a list earlier for me. That layout us fine as is, I'm still of the mind the racing game may be better replaced by a game that involves more physical actions like DDR or a motion control picture. — Masem (t) 23:36, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

Replace the Beatmania IIDX picture with Maimai? It is equally popular and requires more physical actions. Furthermore, it is sad to see no picture referencing PC gamers and/or esports. MilkyDefer 07:38, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

In terms of a "action-y" input control game, I found at least File:Festival du jeu video 20080926 033.jpg this image on Commons, which, while not quite showing immediate action, is a clear idea of the game being something you control with your feet. Masem (t) 19:39, 1 March 2025 (UTC)